Bakemonogatari and Other Anime With Great Dialogue
Anime isn’t exactly a medium renowned for great dialogue. There are probably several reasons for this, most of them stemming from the fact that creative dialogue isn’t really seen as a requirement in most series for conveying story. Most series tend to take a very straightforward approach to explaining plot points, a consequence of the fact that, in most instances, the only objective is clarifying the important points, so being elaborate can come off as unnecessarily extravagant. The other place where one might expect great dialogue is in dramatic moments, but drama in anime tends less towards the theatrical and more towards the sentimental, so again there’s not a huge amount of time for dialogue that is bold or distinctive. There’s also a small matter of context. It takes a lot of care to set up an intricate and elaborate character like Senjougahara, who can believably spout out lines like “I mean, the only kind of girl who would talk to an unappealing virgin like you are late-bloomer crazy virgins like me!” It doesn’t take nearly as much effort to set up a once-and-done character that ends every line with “desu”. (This post contains mild spoilers for the tagged anime.)
It’s slightly harder to judge dialogue as a non-speaker of the language, but I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. Memorable lines transcend language, and you only need to ask fans of Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann to find people who’ll vouch for that. The question then becomes, what are the criteria for dialogue, given the fact that what we “hear” is inevitably filtered by a translator. One of the obvious markers is how natural the dialogue sounds. Dialogue in live action is almost always less artificial sounding than dialogue in anime. I’m not sure how this has evolved, but I guess the fact that premises in anime tend to be a little more far-fetched would be part of this. The concepts that are communicated in dialogue are another important component in deciding the “worth” of a scripted line. When dialogue manages to communicate meaningful and/or insightful and complex ideas in a way that’s succinct and intelligible, then that’s something that’s worthy of recognition. And, just like an anime as a whole, if there’s a line that’s memorable and that sticks out among all others, then there’s gotta be something good about it.
She's so scathing. It's delicious.
Bakemonogatari does all these things very well, but what makes it (relatively) unique is that the speech is very elaborate and comes from characters that are rather unusual… in a fun way. I’m not just talking about Senjougahara, but there’s no denying that she’s stealing the show so far, in much the same way that Suzumiya Haruhi had almost complete ownership of the first season of her show. Senjougahara is an enigma, and her emotions and desires are interwoven in levels within her language, particularly towards Araragi. It gives anime viewers who like an active viewing experience a lot to chew on. She’s almost a bunch of simultaneous contradictions that manage to hold themselves together somehow (like a lot of tsundere-kos in hindsight). She’s very straightforward and highly sexual, something which makes Araragi a tad confused and something she uses to drag him along a little, but she’s not terribly open about her own emotions, preferring to talk about sentimentalities with a certain curtness (ie, when talking about her mother and her “weight”) or an amount of ambiguity (ie, when teasing Araragi). Araragi himself is also an interesting character. He takes the role of a slightly toned down version of the sarcastic narrator popularized by Kyon, and has a similar sense of self-awareness, but he’s almost like an “evil” version of Natsume from Natsume Yuujinchou, in that he’s reluctantly helpful to these people (always girls so far, notice) afflicted by supernatural adversities, but isn’t above laying smackdown on little girls in a comedic context, as he’s done twice now to Mayoi. Bakemonogatari has dialogue with impact that is rare for anime, but it’s not the only series I’ve encountered which has used words to great effect.
Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid
There are a number of genuinely tense confrontations that come in the second half of FMP!TSR when the drama is ramped up. The phone call between Sagara and Wraith in episode 7 openly shows many of Sagara’s fears and insecurities, while his discussion with Tessa in the next episode turned into an amazing heartfelt outpouring of emotion from the captain. As far as memorable lines are concerned, Chidori remembering Sagara’s “only a third rate person would lick his lips in front of his prey” during the scene where she was hunted by Yu Lan, one of the best scenes of the series (and a lesson to other anime on how to do suspense), is certainly up there. But one of my favourite confrontations is Sagara’s “heart-to-heart” with Arbalest’s AI, and how Sagara’s illogical attempt to reconcile duty and emotions lead him to such a vulnerable mental state that, ironically, Al saw fit to give Sagara advice. Through their exercise of figuring out definitions for words, they were really exploring Sagara’s state of mind, and his compromised ability to do his job.
It's even more amusing when he can parry.
Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo
Gankutsuou is filled with epic lines, most of them coming from the Count. His speech patterns are a component of his imposing presence, and he does everything with an air of grace and dignity, despite the fact that all his actions are part of an elaborate scheme. Quite frequently, his lines are used to explore one of the prominent themes of the story, the idea of fate and its role in his quest for revenge, as can be seen as early as episode 5 when he tells Albert: “I need you. The day we met on Luna… You may feel that was a coincidence, but there is no such thing as ‘coincidence’ with fate. Just as the setting of the sun is determined by universal laws, fate also consists of immutable inevitabilities.” Despite not believing it exists in real life, I’ve always found the concept of fate to be fascinating in fiction. But one of the most epic lines was in the flashback when Edmond Dantes first met “Gankutsuou”, who said in French: “My friend, my friend! My friend… Hope… Grief… Ardent desire… Resignation… Anger… Terror… Despair… And once again, hope… I… have waited several thousand years within this borrowed body for a human like you to arrive… I am… with you… And you are with me… I will give you my wisdom and power… and you will offer me that heart and body…!” The brilliant delivery of the line and the dramatic context of that scene make it unforgettable.
Kaiji
Kaiji gets surprisingly philosophical at times. It manages to strike an interesting balance between these incredibly suspenseful yet rather contrived life-and-death situations and an existential exploration of life inside of and departing from equilibrium. Episode 14 is just packed with this, starting with Tonegawa’s monologue on the shortness of life, and how people become complacent and waste it, and finishing up with the narrator creating an analogy between the isolation of Kaiji and Sahara’s place on the beam and the isolation of everyone on earth as they drift separately through life. The strength of Kaiji’s script isn’t so much in the elegance of the lines of dialogue like Gankutsuou, for example, but more in the ideas it transmits. One of my favourite moments comes with Kaiji’s realization in the final episode, regarding the futility of prayer. It’s a somewhat unexpected conclusion, given that fiction tends to ramble about the power of prayer, but it’s also one which appeals to my natural attitude on such things. I see Kaiji, both the anime and the character, as smarter than the normal story for that reason.
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So, what other anime do you think have good dialogue? Is dialogue even something that can be gauged by non-speakers of the language? Your thoughts.
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Update, 29 Jul 2009:
The discussion continues at anitations:
1. sorrow-kun, Bakemonogatari and Other Anime With Great Dialogue (specifically, owen’s comments on translation)
2. lelangir, anitating owen about sorrow-kun’s Bakemonogatari and Other Anime With Great Dialogue
I seriously do wonder if part of the reason that there isn’t much good dialogue has to do with fansubbers not being professional translators and the frequent push from viewers for them to be more “accurate”, which really means to be more stilted and awkward. That and the fact that anime is really made by committee, unlike how American TV is really a writer’s medium.
(Also, Legend of the Galactic Heroes?)
Spice and Wolf is a great show about talking heads
Crest|Banner of the Stars.
See, a lot of this is due to lazy-as-hell or non-proficient translators who know their Japanese but suck at English, period. All that leaving in of -chan/-kun/-san go a long way towards pointing you to a translator who treats English (an SVO language) as Japanese (an SOV language), since if they’re lazy/weeaboo enough to leave in honorifics, something’s gotta give, eventually..
Which brings me to editors–their role is to transform the translated line into English. Hilarious, I know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some fansub groups skip the editing process altogether, considering the quality of what’s out there.
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Kurenai anyone?
Actually Brains Base anime has the best dialogue I’ve seen. Not just Kurenai but Baccano and this season of Spice and Wolf
hmm…no way to edit comments?
Anyway, to follow up, for great dialogue I think you need the characters’ conversation to bounce off one another, quick fire style. As much as I love scathing Senjogahara, it’s a highly one-sided conversation. That’s exactly what Kurenai does so well, the conversation has to flow, like a good date.
Basically, Bakemono is quotable, it doesn’t have great dialogue (although true, it is better than most anime)
A lot of this has to do with the source material first and foremost, before inept translations play havoc.
Just compare ef with any random galge anime, for example. A lot of the examples in the post are adaptations from novels or entirely original, which tend to be better written than manga, also.
Sorry about a third comment but I keep getting more thoughts on the subject.
What it seems you are talking about is a great scripwriter. That’s certainly the case with Gurren Lagann, Bakemono, Gankutsou etc. The ability to come up with highly creative and quotable lines. I guess I’ve just got a different interpretation of what great dialogue is.
OK I’ll stop commenting now
I was thinking of Kino’s Journey, but that also supports Omo’s hypothesis of source novels being written better than most source manga.
Yeah, it’s pretty hard to have much decent dialogue on a manga page where you only have a few small speech bubbles.
I’m with Scamp in that I think dialogue is a two-way exchange. Araragi’s just a tad bit too passive to be able to actually converse with Senjogahara. Most of his comments take the form of him stewing from something he’s said that gets thrown in his face rather than actively engaging Senjogahara.
Not that I’m not enjoying it because I totally am. I just take issue with calling their exchange a dialogue.
I think manga as a form is possible to have great dialog. It’s just that the production process for pro manga doesn’t lend itself to the kind of writing style that great prose are made of, thus you’re not likely to get the same kind of writing? It is certainly not impossible, but at the same time a lot of novels live or die based on the quality of dialog between its characters, and such is fewer the case for manga.
So yeah, if there’s just one thing (and there are many) to blame, it would all be about the source material.
I would say that translators and editors are extremely important in the case of anime, considering that they can alter the precise meaning of any phrase both for better and for worse. Mundane lines can become instant quotes and interesting reflections can become tiresome and pointless, depending on who is in charge of translating and adapting them for a different audience.
Delivery is certainly another part of the issue, even if most of us non-Japanese speakers have only a limited ability to tell whether a voice actor is or isn’t doing too well. I suppose we simply have to accept that limitation and move on.
Legend of the Galactic Heroes has already been mentioned as an example of a series with great dialogue (and a very good translation, I might add), but it’s worth pointing out that dialogue is essentially what carries the entire show and prevents it from being as boring as any superficial description would imply. Characterization remains solid and even fairly complex philosophical/political debates can be brought up without being a real bother to the viewer.
On the other hand, you can have good or great dialogue without having an equally good or great story behind it. I would say that Code Geass had a fair amount of good dialogue, for example, regardless of how messy the overall story and its execution ended up being. The first season, in particular, had some nice banter between a number of the characters, but even as late as the end of R2 there were still some memorable lines involved, in spite of all the crazy twists (or, in some cases, because of them).
I actually believe that most of the power of dialogue comes from the context of the moment. Sure, there are those rare insightful comments and moments of extraordinary prose, but usually, the words that have the greatest impact on me come from dialogue built on a accumulation of events and emotions. For example, take the last exchange between Harry and Brandon at the end of Gungrave.
+1 Crest/Banner of the Stars for me too.
by Sorrow-kun
Having experience working with actors (and as an actor), I can add that eye contact and body language play a significant part in developing natural dialogue. These elements play even a larger role than a line’s context. Anime voices are recorded sometimes individually, in tight-spaced confinements with a microphone and a script as the actress’ center of attention. Matching the emotions and responses character-to-character is a big part of being a director in animation production, and it is always a daunting task.
by Scamp
(note: I have not seen Bakemonogatari yet)
I disagree. Fast dialogue, reminiscent of screwball comedies, or even dialogue that “resonates” and “flows” is not necessarily great dialogue. Dialogue is transmission and reception. Is not a pause or silence a “transmission”, too? Can a character passively receiving a line of text be significant and great writing? What do we say of stutters, coughs, reversals, denials, gibberish–can’t these elements also be part of great dialogue?
One thing I felt Sorrow-kun’s article lacked was a clear definition of great dialogue. He hinted at it and gave examples, but the examples are diverse, much like the opinion and understanding of each individual when it comes to “great dialogue”. Is great dialogue ’stylized’, is it ‘realistic’? To me great dialogue is all at once: 1) convincing, realistic in its context; 2) furthers the character(s) or theme(s); 3) profound, unique, clever, or ‘original’ (in that it is not heard often).
And to credit A.H.:
Also add that speech patterns such as preferring aggressive grammar or defensive vocabulary say something about a character, and that is usually lost in translation due to ineptitude or the limits of the English language.
@Shadowmage
I agree about Gungrave. I do have to admit though that them saying each other’s names like eternal lovers before they pull the trigger was undoubtedly FDA-approved cheese.
I believe Johan Liebert said some wonderful lines in Monster, especially the ones he exchanges with Mr. Schuwald on that stage. Plus, who can forget Yukishiro Tomoe’s words exchanged Kenshin when they first met and throughout Tsuiokuhen? Such timeless dialog…
@jpmeyer
I was under the impression that American TV, particularly sitcoms, are written by committee. But that’s a good point about translators. It goes without saying that good dialogue cannot come through unscathed unless the translation is similarly good, and important nuances are inevitably lost in translation. As viewers, we put an incredible amount of trust into the translations we watch, whether they be official or fansub. People really should be much more vigilant about which translations and fansubbers they put their trust in than they probably are, but the problem with this is that it requires judgement calls from people who are naturally in the dark about the language, as they must be if they’re resorting to subs.
@jiv
Some of the economic jargon can be a bit dry (although I enjoy how well thought through it is), but the banter between Horo and Lawrence is just delightful. There are also a few similarities in the way they speak with each other and the way Senjougahara and Araragi speak to each other, although the latter are more extreme in their bluntness.
@ghostlightning
Haven’t seen them unfortunately, but I hear good things about them. Good dialogue is another in the long list of positives people say about those series.
@Owen S
As I was saying to jpmeyer, we, as non-Japanese viewers, are forced to put a lot of trust into translators and editors. There’s not a great deal of transparency from fansubbers, arguably a consequence of the fact that there tends to be an attitude that fansubbing is done more for personal enjoyment than it is to serve anime watchers (in fact, there’s a really obvious disdain from some fansubbing groups towards the viewers that watch their stuff). I’m probably asking for too much, but I’m starting to think that I’d like to see anime fansubbers put their translating philosophies out in the open more… and, once they’ve done that, more (constructive) criticism among fansubbers of different groups’ works. That’s why I’ve always been a bit of a fan of groups like The Triad and gg. They’re vocal in their criticism of other groups. (I wonder if I’ve made myself look really ignorant just now).
@Scamp
You should be able to edit your comments, but you only get five minutes. Unless the plug-in is broken… Definitely agree with the titles you’ve mentioned. Brains Base are developing a reputation for making good anime in general. Well, if you conveniently ignore Akikan… (I’ll address your comments on the definition of dialogue in a second).
@omo
ef – memories had one of the best scripts from whatever year it came out (2007, IIRC). I definitely agree, it’s a good cut above most of what comes out of that genre in regards to dialogue… even the Key adaptations, which (highly arguably) have better stories.
@kadian1364
Kinda reminds me of this post. My thoughts on the issue is that there’s more scope for freedom when adapting novels than there is when adapting manga, which, as gaguri said, is a bit like a premade storyboard for anime (although I’m of the opinion that it doesn’t necessarily have to be). As both jpmeyer and omo say, manga isn’t exactly a medium that’s susceptible to elaborate dialogue.
@zzeroparticle
This might just be semantics. It depends if you want to say that dialogue is exclusively banter, or whether all spoken lines in a script, including monologues, are also part of a greater dialogue, ie, the dialogue the story has with the viewer. This is probably part of the problem with using such a malleable word. But, what I’m referring to in this instance is the spoken line. It doesn’t matter who it’s spoken to specifically, but “great” speech is something which is rare (but evidently not extinct) in anime.
@A.H.
Maybe. I won’t dispute that Code Geass has memorable lines. The problem with the dialogue in Code Geass is that it has to come through this “messy plot”, which means that some of the meaning is lost or diluted by the time it reaches the audience. I think a marker of good dialogue is that it resonates (which I guess makes it a bit subjective). I’m not sure I’m quite willing to say that there are too many lines in Code Geass that really resonated with me. The actions of the characters, on the other hand… yes, those reached me. Their words… perhaps not as much.
@Shadowmage
No dispute. Context is incredibly important for the effective delivery of dialogue and how much it impacts the audience. That, and atmosphere has a role to play as well. The example I gave for Gankutsuou… I doubt that line would have had anywhere near as much power if it was delivered in a different context and with an atmosphere that wasn’t as absorbing. The line itself was good, but so was the directing, use of lighting, the grim backgrounds and the dramatic fanfare music.
@gaguri
It’s never been a secret that you’re a fan of this franchise.
@Tamashii
Experience keeps telling me to baulk when trying to define “great” anything. The problem with trying to define “great” dialogue is that something might come along in the future which defies that definition but still has the same power and impact of something else which adheres to it. It’s all well and good to say something is “great” because it adheres to a set of conventions that are intuitively inherent in what we’d normally think of as “great”… but then something completely unconventional and unintuitive might come along and show those conventions to be shortsighted. And you know me, I love seeing it when an anime does that. Then again, I can’t see anything wrong with your definition of “great dialogue”.
@AC
Her lines in Tsuiokuhen are very emotional. She’s a very complicated character, having to deal with lots of conflicting dilemmas. That’s what makes her such a fascinating character, and what makes her situation so dramatic.
My memory is fuzzy, but I wouldn’t say that Kaiji has great dialogue. Perhaps it has a lot of GAR monologue, it’s just Kaiji promulgating his newly found philosophies at people, not really with people. Same with Akagi. The lack of self-insert characters makes the dialogue more of an objected thing to be seen, already rehearsed and packaged. With that in mind, you’d think that s’life shows have the best dialogue, i.e. Hidasketch.
Or, Lucky Star.
@Sorrow-kun
Setting down a definition is not a matter of integrity. It is for argument’s sake or clarity, to not appear arbitrary, ambiguous, or contradictory. What can we say of someone who agrees that Anime A and Anime B both have “great dialogue”, when both are polar opposites (A is subtle and snappy, B is upfront and calm)? It is not that she has a double standard so-to-speak, but that there is another underlying line of thought: perhaps “great dialogue” to her has exceptional educational value, which A and B both share.
@lelangir
Agreed. This is also an extension of my above argument and how a definition can prevent trapping oneself. Kaiji is the one example that I found very odd in Sorrow-kun’s post. Is not dialogue a conversation (a verbal interaction) between two or more people/parties? It’s hard to swallow that the clumsy and redundant narration is ‘dialogue.’ Yes, there are two parties: the narrator and the audience; however it is not an interaction and is a one-sided transmission/reception. In a dialogue, both parties have the option of responding, and that option is important because it confirms their participation. Additionally, the monologues are defined as such because there is only one subject. That falls under the category of “great monologues”. To call these two categories ‘the greater dialogue’ of the script is cheating; sure they are “spoken” lines, but each of the three categories have their separate distinct definitions. Shouldn’t this blog be called “Anime With Great Lines” then?
The problem with Kaiji is that the presentation of ideas is simplistic, and sometimes awkward. Anything that relies heavily on voice-overs and disembodied narrations raises my red flag. Sometimes these techniques can be the only way to convey an idea. But the Greeks had proven that a dialogue can be very powerful (think Plato and his Socrates dialogues).
I’m going to get something out right now: Shinbo directs some fun stuff. The guy is a genius at being weird and profound.
Now for this anime, I’m starting to believe he’s over doing it. When he wants to have a whimsical and strange exchange between characters, he can do it rather well. But at this point, it’s starting to become distracting to the plot. They spent most of episode three and four blathering on about nonsensical bullshit that had nothing to do with the plot. I mean, hello… little girl… ghost stories… it’s taking you three-quarters of an episode to find an address that obviously can’t be found without Oshino’s help… and it’s all because the two main characters wont shut the fuck up.
I’m okay with the exchanges, because I find them to be on a particular level of sharpness that you just don’t find from main heroes. But Shinbo, this isn’t Zetsubo Sensei. They don’t need to talk for fifteen minutes about what kinds of sexual favors Senjogahara is or isn’t willing to do to repay Araragi squished inbetween a long diatribe about mother’s day and the completely jarring and out of place combat between a grade school girl and a former vampire.
I’m enjoying this, but God damn could someone teach Shinbo how to be concise?
FMA? Gungrave? “…in the end I chose Harry McDowell” Man, how one could not shed manly tears.
Gankutsuou has the benefit of Dumas’s once-in-a-century ingenuity. I can’t even point out which parts that I dislike – too much of good moments in the adaptation.
I will add one more thing: I don’t really think it’s important to trust or not your translation as long as the translation serves your needs. A passive viewer would not care more or less about his dub or subtitles, so if you want to encourage more of us to be active viewers, to research, question and think about the stuff we watch, yeah that’s cool. If you want a heavy-duty translation because you want to write some academic paper on something and you’re citing the translation, well, that’s different.
However the verbal communication aspects of an anime is just a fraction of the total communicative construct, and all parties–editors, translators, concerned fans, OCD fansub weeaboos–should take the whole work into account.
@lelangir
Again, this comes back to how one wants to define “dialogue”. Implicit in the word is a two-way communication, which I concede doesn’t really happen in Kaiji. From that point of view, Hidamari Sketch certainly has more dialogue than Kaiji, and while what the characters say is believable given the context, I’m not sure I’d be willing to say it has “great” dialogue, in that there aren’t really many exchanges or lines that are particularly memorable. Same probably goes for Lucky Star… in fact, if there’s something that Lucky Star is renowned for, it’s the mundanity of its dialogue. It made an effort to be down-to-earth. Is what they say in Lucky Star believable? Yes. Memorable? Errr…
@Tamashii
Well, I guess I’m still trying to figure out just what the underlying values shared in examples of “great dialogue” are, since the examples themselves, even in this discussion (most of which I agree with) are rather diverse. Until someone can isolate those qualities, then it is very hard to define “great dialogue”, just as it is to define “moe” (the challenge with defining “moe” is that it’s different things to different people, which may also be the challenge in defining “greatness” in the context of dialogue and other anime-related things which are usually judged subjectively). Maybe someone should attempt to come up with a set of criteria with which to objectively judge dialogue. I’m not sure I want that responsibility, personally.
@TIF
Concise, structured, well-paced… there’s aren’t exactly Shinbo’s strengths. I almost see the plot in Bakemonogatari as an aside to the character interactions. I mean, the plot itself isn’t revolutionary… it’s about a main character who goes around helping people who have problems of the supernatural variety. If you take the simplified premise, it’s one that’s has appeared in a raft of different types of anime, with Kanon at one end and Natsume Yuujinchou at the other. The character interactions and the fierce verbal exchanges are, for me, the hook of the show. I’ll tolerate the snail’s pacing if the other stuff stays as interesting as it is.
@rev
A powerful line… although probably not a particularly elegant one. Needless to say, manly tears were shed.
@omo
Well, yeah, no dispute about the last part, but that shouldn’t be an excuse for subpar translations. I mean, without the aid of a translation, I might be able to understand 70% of what’s going on while watching anime, because of context, visual cues, tone, etc. With a half decent translation, one might be able to understand 90%, but you probably wouldn’t get nuances and subtleties, things like that. A particularly good translation gives you a chance to access some of the more subtle things about the dialogue. The fact remains that the viewers are forced to rely on the translation they watch. There’ll inevitably be something lost from the original in translation. How significant that “something” is depends on the translation itself. I’m not particularly advocating that subbers should go above and beyond for the sake of absolutely lossless translations. The philosophies behind what makes a “perfect” translation aren’t even concrete to begin with. I’m just saying that translators should be striving towards writing translations that are “good”… whatever that means.
I probably remember way more 4 komas from LS than anything from Kaiji, since at least for me LS has basically infinite rewatch value.
@sorrow-kun
I’m sorry, after reading your reply to me I thought I could not have agreed more, but I don’t do a good job tracking what you’re referring to about “excuse.” The reality of fansubs is beyond merely furnishing a “good” translation. In fact, the only reason why anyone should produce a “good” translation is because the fansubbers want to do it to a degree. They’re not obligated beyond, say for example, out of the respect of the original work, out of the fans of the work, or out of their own sense of pride.
And that’s not even getting into what “good” is. In fact I would say that even if I agree with you that a “good” translation is highly lossless and get at the nuances, that’s not always the case for every translation that is good….I don’t even know if that is often the case when it comes to translating anime and manga.
@omo
Well, I don’t want to imply that fansubbers are obligated to do anything (even if it does seem that way), but we can’t escape the reality that viewers are forced to rely on them, and there’s a certain level of integrity that’s assumed by viewers in all of this somewhere. What I basically mean by “excuse” is that there’s this gap in accountability due to the fact that viewers cannot (readily) criticize translations since they have no reliable way to know that they’re actually accurate or not. I’m not going to imply that this happens regularly, but I’m sure there have been instances in the past where, for whatever reason, a translation has not been accurate, and the only ones to know this are other people who happen to be fluent in both languages. The Japanese-to-Chinese-to-English translation is a common example, since the nuances and so-on are filtered twice, which is why they’re commonly looked down upon. That’s not to say it’s impossible to make a good translation by going through this route, it’s just harder to reliably minimize losses, since it requires two “good” translations. I’m conveniently dancing around defining a “good” translation with specifics, because I don’t think I’m qualified to do that. That, I’m really starting to strongly think, can only be done by other translators.
The question, I think, is: how do we introduce accountability into fansubbing? That’s a sticky question that I’m not prepared to answer. (It’s made even more complex given how rampant trolling is in the fansubbing fraternity already. When you put systems of accountability in place, you’re basically asking for people to come up with their most creative ways to abuse them.)
How could I forget about this? Lucky Star. The whole show is driven by dialogue of the capricious and informative kind that can also be found in Bakemonogatari.
[...] survey of anime with great dialogue, Bakemonogatari is already on this list (Sorrow-kun [...]
IMO, best dialog trophy belongs to Hatenkou Yuugi.
oh, with a close second tie to Kurenai and Red Garden