Comments on: Post-Moe?

By: linger

linger — Sun, 05 Sep 2010 08:45:46 +0000

In a discussion of the industry, how can Akagi and TM 8.0 be considered “popular?” They don’t even have 10,000+ average DVD+BD sales per volume.

“Otaku should not remain complacent to watch crap simply because they find the characters aesthetically pleasing cardboard cutouts…”

I read this as “Otaku should like the things I do, not like the things they do.”

By: qtip

qtip — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 06:27:10 +0000

What Shadowmage said.
Like those of any medium of storytelling, anime’s early years were a time of disjointed exploration, with a few innovators playing with ideas for some time before settling on one thing or another. In this case, Tomino and Takahashi Ryousuke’s real robot genre might be a good example of an idea that spawned a generation of imitators and pioneers. However, the 90′s that followed (give or take a few years) was a time of innovation for the industry as new directors and studios emerged, with the appearance of many styles and genres we now take for granted and the production of so many “modern classics”. This eventually led into the moe age (alongside the burst in visual novel adaptations?), and it’s been more or less stagnant since then.
I also wouldn’t say I hate moe, but like AC, saturation is a recipe for distaste. After the last few years with its largely moe-centric ideology, it seems that Sturgeon’s Law might have been an understatement.
Of course, it’s much too early to say that “anime is dead”. If we prescribe to the idea of history repeating itself, we can hope for this “post-moe” age to be another one full of fresh ideas.

Here’s hoping. ( ‘∀’)ﾉ

By: Shadowmage

Shadowmage — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:58:31 +0000

@jpmeyer

It’s really not all that surprising considering that the first two episodes actually had new material. The real test for Haruhists will be seeing if they get all of Endless Eight.

Besides, when has rage on the internet been a good indicator for what sells well or not?

By: jpmeyer

jpmeyer — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:41:16 +0000

Here’s what confuses me: Amazon Japan is loaded with 1 star flame reviews (“I give up”, “Who the hell do they expect to buy this?”, etc.) for the Haruhi S2 DVDs, but the first volume just sold 25k copies in its first week.

By: AC

AC — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:19:13 +0000

I’m pretty pessimistic about the anime industry too.

I have nothing against moe, but like any other genre, too much of something can be sickening. I can’t say whether the moe industry has reached its point of saturation – even though my inner ranting child wants to say so – but I’ve been thinking to myself on how great it would be if it is more proliferated and has better variety. The thing is, that may sound pessimistic because looking from a business point of view, it would be unwise not to continue doing something that’s bringing in the money.

I don’t know if the otaku community really has had enough of the moe mass diffusion – since they always look like they need it like humans need food – but if the otaku starts to look for something post-moe, then it may be a good sign for those who seeks more variety such as myself. The problem is, in this “post moe world”, will there any new phenomenon that will replace and become the new “moe”? If that happens, although it is good that variety comes along the way, it may have been a short-lived one.

Whatever happens, I’m just quietly seeking the moment where variety becomes the norm in the anime industry and the medium becomes more than just big-eyed personality-manufactured characters in predictable settings.

By: Tamashii

Tamashii — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:58:07 +0000

Moe is horrendous. But it’s always been with anime on some level, only now it will never leave because it has finally been articulated, defined, and brought into the otaku consciousness. I can’t wait for this “Golden Age” to diminish. I’d like what’s to come to be something along the lines of what Shinbo is doing, on both an aesthetic (auditory and visual) and narrative level: most anime embracing a relatively unconventional approach to presentation and story that is akin to “kinetic cinema” (high energy, rapid editing, bombastic ideas). It’s a hark back to the once-cherished notion that anime was different from animation, and certainly film.

By: Sorrow-kun

Sorrow-kun — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:19:12 +0000

It’s hard to speculate on what’s going to happen in the mid/long-term future, but I think “post-moe” is a believable possibility. But, I think it will happen as an evolution rather than a revolution, like many art-movements tend to be. There’s just so much money in anime, and when money is involved, people become so wary of risks that they’re much less prepared to take them. But I think otaku are already tiring, if slightly, of the saturation of moe. KyoAni, while still wildly popular, is a much more controversial figure than they were a few years ago, where all but the most ardent moe-haters were willing to embrace their brand of super-moe. There’ll be a big new thing in anime in the future. The wheel turns. I just think, because the wheel is so big now, it’ll happen slowly. But there are reasons to be optimistic about anime. And omo’s point about the creative culture at the grassroots level is a good one. Every now and then doujin artists, from ABe to Ryukishi07, make it big, and get their works made into anime that show great creativity. The technology of storytelling is easier now, so maybe that’ll help with the storytelling itself.

By: Shadowmage

Shadowmage — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:25:58 +0000

Personally, I think we’re seeing the beginning of the end of the “golden age” of moe. Much like the mecha genre a few decades ago, moe started out as a fresh concept that was profitable and could only exist within the anime medium. However, the industry has pretty much exhausted everything it could do with the concept. I foresee a future where moe will still have some presence (like the mecha genre) but won’t represent over half the new shows that come out in a season.

By: A.H.

A.H. — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:02:32 +0000

I would say that one of the elephants in the room is the guy with the checkbook. Creators might want to experiment, but if their experiments fail to be profitable then they will prefer to work on creatively empty shows because that will put money in their wallet and the studios will want to hire them again for a future project.

Of course, it can be assumed that good anime should be more profitable than repetitive harem shows, because more people will want to watch something good and will reward a well written story, but this is not always the case.

Taking that risk requires the financial backing of the studios and their sponsors.

By: jpmeyer

jpmeyer — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:43:07 +0000

I’m actually pretty pessimistic. Moe is well, what sells in Japan.

That moe sells well isn’t somehow objectively “bad” on its own. What makes me wary is the combination of the recession with the shrinking Japanese population. Combined with those two aspects, short of another Evangelion or Densha Otoko moment, I feel like the medium is just going to keep looking more inward and getting more insular as it caters to an ever-dwindling market.